Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome once again to The Day today where, like, a Mattio Kovacic hacked down, we've been allowed to stay on for yet another show. Joining me and Matt Furlis today, by popular demand, once again, is Ollie Hopkins. And there's no beating around the bush with us. Let's get into the talking point. We have to head to the Emirates. We have to look at that late winner. We have to reflect on whether it could be one of the most pivotal strikes in the Premier League campaign. But also, Matt, we have to reflect on what an absolutely complete flat spectacle that game was.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I was pumped for that game. I had my seven year old boy really looking forward to talking about it all day. Like, when can we watch Arsenal, Man City when's it starting? And then within 1015 minutes, we were bored and playing football in the garden because it was just such a dull game.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: I watched parts of it, even the gaming cam. That didn't keep him interested.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: I tried it, just did not like it at all. Didn't feel normal. I don't like change. I like to watch a game, as I should on TV. It's like when you see a camera angle all wrong. There was one earlier this season, I can't remember what game it was, where the camera angle was slightly off and it unsetled me and I couldn't watch it. I can't remember what game it was. Annoyingly.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: The only thing I hated about it was that you couldn't see, like, especially the amount of time teams like City and Arsenal, their attacker knocked the ball backwards. You had no clue who the ball was going to. The camera light had to quickly transition back into it. So one of those football experiments you can put in the bin. Football Cliches podcast restarts in a week's time, apparently, so we'll verge off that topic.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: I get it. Like, people are used to watching it that way on FIFA, et cetera, and they're trying to attract that audience, quite obviously, sky, aren't they? Because that's all they do now, the YouTuber style content, but, yeah, just not for me. I don't know what other people thought of it. I didn't really see much many people talking about it. I think a lot of people confused because they didn't know it was happening and it was an error. But, yeah, it was probably the most entertaining thing about that game.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Yeah, probably, because it really wasn't, as I say. Yeah, late winniper Arsenal, but that's pretty much all she wrote.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Bar.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Erling Harlan's Stifling. Once again.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Yeah, Ollie, you'll be a lot happier.
[00:02:20] Speaker C: I was going to say what was funny is the way that the game started did not reflect how it went at the first five minutes.
City looks really good, really assured, confident. Obviously had those two chances in the first three minutes from Guvardio and Ake, which were, I think, combined worth 0.4 xg and I think as an Arsenal fan, kind of feeling pretty concerned that that's how the opening exchanges went, particularly given the Arsenal's terrible record against City, as we all know.
But Arthur, three minutes. City had two more shots in the entire game.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: Was one of those the Alvarez one where Reya kicked it against him as well? Does that count?
[00:03:15] Speaker C: I don't know, actually.
And, yeah, both the four total shots was the fewest they've had under guardiola in the Premier League. So that kind of shows just how much they were stifled. I mean, Arsenal didn't exactly have many more than mean they had more kind of overall shots, but just two on target themselves. So it was a game really devoid of clear cut chances.
I think overall had less than one Xg the entire game as a whole. And you have to go back three years to find a City or Arsenal game where you had that, where you had lower kind of cumulative Xg in a single game where those two ties had played. So, yeah, I think a game full of big physical defenders, and it felt like for the majority of the game that actually both sides were kind of happy to play for a draw.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: And I guess football was a game.
[00:04:20] Speaker C: Of fine moments and fine margins. And then you have the one of Arsenal's two shots on target in the last moments of the game. Big deflection goes in, and then up to they win one nil.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it's full credit to Arsenal and how Pep Guardiola clearly sees Arsenal as, like, the biggest threat to the Premier League title, that he's happy to go to the Emirates set up in a way. Okay, we're going to attack for five minutes, whatever, and come away with just a point and be happy probably with that point and go, yeah, I put that in the back pocket after last week as well. And I think that's where the game just didn't fire. You mentioned there about City's only had four shots for Pep Guardiola. It's his fewest in a top flight game since April 2010 when he was at Barcelona against Espanol. Also four in that game.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: So it shows how historical Espanol was that day.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: Go on, Ottino.
There we go. See, it all comes around. Circle of life. Football. Football is just a circle of life.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: But, yeah, I think that's how I.
[00:05:22] Speaker A: Sort of see this as a city set up. It's an unfortunate deflection. We can talk about how the fact Kovacic probably should have been off in that game and there should have been down to ten men. There a couple of incidents over twice.
VAR went the other way this weekend to try and keep everybody onside and on board.
Let's talk about let's talk about Raya quickly, because there's conversation going on that Arsenal players would rather have Ramsdale in goal. His distribution is pretty decent along to medium range, but that playout from the back style he got himself into trouble in a few times. Another day that Alvarez goal goes in and we're all talking about what a horrendous error that is.
Ollie, is it right? Arsenal keep chopping in check. Is it Reyes now, number one, is Ramsdale going to be back in next game or is this just it's almost like we're moving to the point where in ice hockey you now have two number one goalies and you rotate your goalies just to give them rest.
[00:06:25] Speaker C: I think we can probably say now that Ryers got the first dibs on that first team spot.
He started in, I think maybe four or five of the last games in goal. So I think it's probably his to lose now. Obviously with Ramsdale on the bench, that's a very good backup to have, and I don't think Arteta will be too worried or too concerned with having to change it if the time comes. I think it was very important for Raya but also for Arsenal as a whole that that first half there wasn't a goal that was kind of conceded, know, rare's shakiness. I think that was very important to kind of navigate through that period of time, and if there had been a goal that was due to his mistakes, we would be talking about this game in a very different light and that whole narrative around who is Shibio's first TrustKeeper would be swirling for another two weeks here. So I'm sure Arteta is very happy that hasn't happened, I guess kind of credit where it's due. I mean, second half he really calmed down and was far more assured and did kind of ping a couple of amazing sort of 70 yard balls as the game was sort of petering out to kind of really go over the city press and kind of nullify the game almost. So, lest I forget that's what he's got in his locker versus Ramsdale is perhaps not as good over the longer range.
And in some respects, you have to credit him and the team for continuing to try and play the way that Arsenal want to play, despite it looking pretty shaky in the first half an hour or so.
So, yeah, I guess this is one of ones where it's almost like the results might paper over some of that early nervousness, but I think hopefully it's something that they can look at and learn from and hopefully they don't have to kind of repeat that going forwards. I think Arsenal sort of players didn't really help him as well.
They were asking for the ball in very tight areas, quite difficult passes.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: But.
[00:08:55] Speaker C: Still, that's why he was brought into the team. He should be able to kind of complete those short passes. But, yeah, thankfully it didn't lead to anything too catastrophic.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: I think the most important thing yesterday in terms of the Premier League as a whole was Arsenal beating City in terms of making it a lot more exciting. There's four points now separating the top six and if City had won both at Wolves and Arsenal, they'd be four points clear already. I mean, they went the opening six games of the season, winning every match, and everyone thought it was going to be another easy title win for them. The last time City started so well in the season was when they won seven in a row in 2016 17. And then they almost collapsed. Really. They finished third with 78 points.
That was 15 behind the winners, Chelsea.
So who's to say that couldn't happen again? I think it's quite a strong Premier League this season. Teams know, I think they've been given confidence now that Wolves and Arsenal have both defeated City, that they can be beaten.
There is a much bigger spread of teams that have the ability to do that as well. Now, you look at I mean, I know Man United and Chelsea are much lower down the table, but they could beat City on their day. Newcastle.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: Brighton.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Villa. Liverpool arsenal. Spurs. You've even got your West Ham. Your West Ham's, your Chelsea.
[00:10:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting you say that. You look at cities running after this international break, okay, they come back, they've got Brighton at home. Who knows what Brighton are going to turn up like on their day? Brighton, that could be a challenging.
[00:10:42] Speaker C: It.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: Could be absolutely anything, but after that, Man United away, okay, bournemouth at home, chelsea away, liverpool home, spurs home, villa away. It's a tricky little potential.
Probably three weeks ago, we're saying they might blow through that and probably drop a point here or there. Now you look at that and you're thinking, hang on here. Actually, there's a good chance there could be many points dropped here and against sides that are in and around them at the top of the table could make this a really interesting title battle.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: When we have this podcast and see everyone every game, we'll be saying, that's easy. They win the league at Cancer again.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: They'll come undone on the 9 December when they played Loot in the way because they can't go play in those small little grounds.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: So it's fine. We have to cope with the atmosphere, I think, with obviously injury issues. De Bruyne are out. Rodri not helping himself, getting sent off for free games. Those teams, the opposition have capitalized on that and in past seasons we haven't really seen that. It's not to say that City haven't got strength in depth. I mean, you look at their bench yesterday and they had what, phillips, Stones, Grealish, Doku, akanji Nunez, all of those players. You've got upcoming players like Gomez, Bob, I'll say Stefan Otega on the bench, not a bad backup keeper, but not that exciting. But their bench is so strong, they've got strength in depth and they've got these players out. But, I mean, yeah, yesterday I think Arsenal showed that they can, teams can nullify City and even Wolves did it last week. Harland didn't have an excellent game against Wolves, definitely wasn't really involved too much yesterday.
So, yeah, I think it all bodes well for an exciting season at the top of the Premier League. You'd hope as a neutral, so long.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: As all the games don't play out like they did on Sunday. Right then, when we're back after the break, we're going to get into the good, the Bad and the quirky from the weekend's action and of course the ever popular Pauling Quirk Quiz where probably once again I'll be suffering defeat.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: We'll catch you in a bite.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Welcome back to The Day Today, whereas ever we are grateful for you tuning in, however and wherever you do. So it's time to get into the good, the bad and the quirky from the Weekend action. Let's look at the good now. Sometimes when we do the good, we talk about teams that may have been victorious to start off the good. We do have a triple threat here, but the team who we really want to highlight in the Good this week are a side that had a two two draw.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: But it's been a quite special week.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: For West Ham, hasn't it, Matt?
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Yeah, they followed up their Europa League win in midweek at Freiburg with a good point against a very good Newcastle side, proving that they are better than Paris and German.
I think as a pointer here, kind of we over the podcast, we try and cover different teams. So most people wouldn't necessarily think West Ham have had a great week in the Premier League, but I think it's more kind of in terms of the start they've made against expectation and how well David Moyes has done there since coming back to the club. They're going about their business quite quietly and are only, what, three points off the top four as we head into the international break.
And this comes after they finished.
Okay, they finished 14th last season in the Premier League, but that was because they sacrificed their league form knowing they were up, staying up to win a European trophy, winning the Conference League final last season against Fiorentina. That came after finishing 6th and 7th in the seasons before that. It feels like they've really recovered quite well from losing such an integral player in Declan Rice in the summer. Obviously the incomings of War Prowls Alvarez from Ajax have been good signings.
They are a very difficult team to play. They could beat anyone on their day. I think Moyes should be applauded for how well he's done there. And it feels like West Ham are actually the kind of I've said this for a while, the sleeping giant in the Premier League. If they were to get that investment, they've got a big fan base, big ground, solid squad there. If they added two or three top class players to that, they could easily get in the top four.
The top four feels like something that a lot of clubs could achieve with a solid season. Now, with Man United and Chelsea falling away as much as they have done, you're seeing teams like Villa Brighton maybe stretching that to West Ham as possibilities.
Yeah, I just think it's been a really good start to the season for West Ham recovering well from what many people said in the summer, they would really struggle this season and could be even contenders to be in that bottom three, which just doesn't look like happening now.
And I really like David Moyes. He's been disrespected in the football world after that spell at Manchester United where it didn't go to plan, but Ferguson left him with a pretty terrible squad and he wasn't given time to really implement what he wanted to implement there. And they pulled the trigger on him before he could see out the first season. Even so, who knows how well they would have done eventually? I mean, they haven't done great since he left, they haven't won a Premier League title since Ferguson retired, and maybe they needed someone there to stay and do a job over a longer period.
Who's to say how Moyes would have done there? But I think it's nice to see Moyes doing as well as he is at West Ham.
And long may it continue.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: Yeah, and we've mentioned it before on the podcast. It's the style of play in which they're doing and turning around these results, ollie, it's not something that you see a lot from Premier League sides.
There isn't this side that builds up from the back, they counter punch, they really go on the counterattack against these opposition and that proved itself against Newcastle as well. I mean, Newcastle looked brilliant at times. Kiritropia again just continues to excel, but again, if you allow West Ham that chance to counterattack you, they're going to take advantage.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:17:13] Speaker C: I mean, this game was a classic West Ham against a good team blueprint that the Moyes deployed. I mean, they had just 35% possession and just five shots overall in the game, but yet registered over 1.1 expected goals in the game. I think kind of like a byproduct.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: Of.
[00:17:35] Speaker C: Playing on the counterattack means that when you do create chances, they're of higher quality. And actually, so far in the Premier League this season, west Ham have an average X cheaper shot of zero, the second highest in the division behind Newcastle, who have zero point 15.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: So I think it just kind of.
[00:17:56] Speaker C: Shows that when you do sit back in a nice low block, you look defensive and have quality on the counterattack. Someone like Jared Bowen, Mikhail Antonio is great in that part of the game. You can fashion chances that are very high value against kind of unsettled defense. And this happened again against Newcastle and say, despite only having five shots, they still created some good chances from those, and we've seen that happen. It was seven against Chelsea, ten against Brighton, just kind of carving teams open on the break.
And it really does work against the better teams in the league and it's.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Really difficult for teams to come do that Thursday, Sunday double a lot. And we've seen it in the past with teams have struggled after getting the Europa League and Conference League. This will be, what, the third successive season that West Ham have had to do that, and they've coped pretty well with it so far, I should say. Actually, we said that they broke a record in Europe in midweek. That was their 17th successive game unbeaten in Europe. It's the longest ever by an English club, including qualifiers. So, yeah, a really impressive record and testament to the job Moyes has done there.
[00:19:12] Speaker A: Yeah, really good stuff if you're a Hammers fan at the moment. Long may it continue. Could they be that sleeping giant? One team who aren't so much of a sleeping giant, but had featured quite a bit in our Bad reviews at the start of the season, and even last week's podcast went out a little bit later because we thought they might slip into the Bad once again. But instead they turned it around and a good four one victory for Chelsea over Burnley cementing their place in the Good this week.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah, and they did it this way coming from behind as well. Everyone would have thought Chelsea might have wilted after going behind to Burnley this weekend, but they came back and, yeah, four one pre emphatic victory with some really impressive attacking play. It's very hard to tell how good a win that is at the moment. Burnley are a very strange side. We did say earlier in the season that they're a very open team, they're quite easy to pick holes in, but they also are quite dangerous going forward.
That's three successive wins now in all competitions and back to back Premier League wins for the first time since March for Chelsea. So are they starting to show what we think they can do? I think they've got players out injured. Obviously they've underperformed in terms of both attack and defense in terms of the underlying metrics. Oli wrote really a piece a couple of weeks ago where we said, looking at our expected points model, that suggests actually Chelsea have been unfortunate and should be fourth in the Premier League. And this was a couple of weeks ago now and there was pressure mounting on Pochettino. And I think the official line or the unofficial line was that Chelsea had looked at the underlying numbers and seen that they're doing quite well and that they should stick with him. I think, Ollie, you know a bit more about the expected points model as you wrote the yeah. Do you reckon you could explain that a little bit more?
[00:21:05] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. This piece was written off the back of Chelsea's beat at home to Aston Villa a few weeks ago. And, yeah, the co owners kind of came out and know we back the manager, we bet pochettino having looked at the data, which suggests that actually results would get better over time, and the expected points model essentially said that City, sorry, Chelsea should be in fourth. And the way that that model works, essentially, it takes the expected goals value of all teams shots for and against in all their matches, and then simulates those matches 10,000 times to determine the win draw loss outcome, on average of their games. And then it applies, simple applies points for win draw loss, depending on those results.
And I think the point of that piece, and the point generally here, is that, yes, shouldn't Chelsea were vastly underperforming. They're actually in front of goal. I think at one point they had the worst line of performance in the entirety of Europe for kind of strikers.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Not venting their chances.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: And maybe finally we're kind of seeing that reversion back to what we would expect to see in front of goal with some of their recent performances.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: And also we have to cover that expected points model with the caveats that it doesn't take into consideration things like game state chances that didn't end in a shot, et cetera. So it's not the perfect model, but it's a good indicator of performance, underlying performance, and how teams may be unlucky or unfortunate or lucky. And as Olio's point out, there the underperformance in terms of attacking play before that win at Weekend last Monday against Fulham, they'd underperformed their Xg by more than any other side since the start of last season, they'd scored between 18 and 19 goals fewer than expected. So 43 goals from 61.5 expected goals the last two weeks, they've turned that in their favor. They've scored six goals from 3.6 Xg. So maybe you never know, we might start seeing Chelsea get a bit of fortune in front of goal in the next few weeks.
[00:23:38] Speaker A: Well, yeah, because the four goals they scored against Burnley came from just nine shots. It's the fewest attempts to see them score at least four goals in a Premier League game since September 2017.
Before going into that game, they'd only scored with 6.9% of their shots in the Premier League. So, as you say, the underlying metrics maybe going to suggest things might be turning for the blues.
[00:24:03] Speaker B: We have to be careful, don't we? Because if it was that easy to make assumptions from underlying metrics, then we'd know where everyone's going to finish in the table. But the signs, I mean, aren't as disastrous as many Chelsea fans are led to believe, I don't think.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: And also, I think the benefit of them not playing in Europe this season, they get a full week on the training ground, they get a full week to implement their plans and such, I think that will be a huge benefit for them, especially with the squad that they've got rolling around. Another team that have been singing the blues in recent weeks, everton. I think at one point many people were writing them straight off like, this is finally going to be their year to drop out the Premier League, but a very, very good victory and well worth their money against Bournemouth in this one. Free nil that Everton picked up the victory and Sean Dyche, yeah, getting it working there, Matt.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it'd be a miss of us, not to mention Everton in the Good this week. After winning three nil at home against Bournemouth, they scored three goals at Goodison Park in the Premier League for the first time this calendar year. That ended a run of 17 matches without doing so. And the last time they did that was a three in a win against Crystal Palace in October 2022.
I mean, after this point of losing at home to Luton last week, a lot of Everton fans were thinking, here we go again.
But that defeat has now turned out to fall between three successive wins in all competitions.
So many may have thought that Everton were doomed. I think that victory this weekend has really lifted spirits ahead of the Merseyside Derby when we return in the Premier League. That won't be an easy game for Liverpool.
I think that Everton are a much stronger team when Calvert Lewin is playing. He's obviously back now after some injury problems.
[00:25:47] Speaker C: Beto's a threat as well.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: I think that Jack Harrison was a fantastic signing and a brilliant goal he scored this weekend.
Ashley Young as well was a good signing for a Premier League club as well, so they have more consistent performers, I think, this season that could maybe pose more of a threat. I think that they will be okay this season. I'm not saying they'll have a great season, I think they'll finish between, what, 14th and 18th probably, sorry, 14th and 17th. They'll stay up, I think, but, yeah, I think that it's a club that off the field. There's obviously a lot of issues there which we're not going to go into because that's not our role.
But on the field I feel like they can be confident of remaining in the league this season, maybe more so because of the fact that there are some quite poor teams in the league this year.
[00:26:43] Speaker A: Well, let's start talking about some of them and let's get into the bad from the weekend's action. Let's stay at Goodison Park, we've got to talk about Bournemouth.
Urina came in, we all got told he was going to bring in this style of play that was going to amaze everybody in the Premier League, that was going to put teams under pressure, that was going to give this small team and a smaller club a punching chance in the Premier League.
Right now, I don't see him maybe surviving this international break?
[00:27:11] Speaker B: No, you feel like he could get the push.
I would be disappointed for him because I feel like with time, he might be able to implement those ideas. And they've also been fairly unfortunate of injuries.
It doesn't help that O'Neill kept them up last season and did well. And the obvious thing is that, oh, well, we let go of him and now he's doing quite well at Wolves and it's, look where we are.
They are one of only two teams that haven't yet won in the Premier League. Them alongside Sheffield United.
Some historic data for you, because I know you all love it. The longest run from the start of a top flight season without a victory was Bolton Wanderers in 19 219 three. That was 22 games. I don't quite think Bournemouth will be as bad as that. I feel like they can be all right. There Sheffield United, the other team that yet still win a game in the league this season. They hold the current Premier League record, their last Premier League season in 2021, they went the opening 17 games without a victory under Chris Wilder. There have been 27 previous occasions of a side going their first eight games without a win in the Premier League season and 18 of those have been relegated. So that's exactly two thirds. But some of those teams, I think that we are, of that 27, have caveats included. Here you got Newcastle in 20, 21, 22, who got some from somewhere, got some serious financial backing and that helped them stay up. Tottenham in 2008, nine, were one of those teams that started out a win. I think they got redknap in then and obviously, quite obviously, they were too good to go down. They were never going to go down. And then Blackburn in 96, 97, that was two years after they won the league and they were just getting used to life without Alan Shearer that season. They ended the season the 13th they recovered. So there are some of those clubs that did stay up that, yeah, you would have expected to stay up. I guess it's kind of like if Chelsea had gone eight games unwinless at the start of this season, they weren't going to get relegated, were they? Whereas with Bournemouth and Sheffield United, you do fear for them a little bit. So, yeah. This is the first time ever in a Premier League season that Bournemouth have gone eight games without a victory to start the season and it's their lowest points total at this stage of a top flight season with three.
Yeah.
This season in preseason, they replaced O'Neill with Irola and he'd enjoyed three really good season in Spain. And I think everyone was like, this feels like a step up from O'Neill.
Obviously, the Bournemouth board thought that, but Veacano are doing really well in La Liga this season without him, so you worry a little. Bit. I think that they could make that move this summer sorry, in this international break and replace him. If not, then you fear for him in the next international break, which comes in about four weeks or five weeks.
He is one of just 15 managers not to win their first eight games as a Premier League boss, and that includes Caretaker stints.
So he's seven games off, equaling the Premier League record set by both Mick McCarthy at Sunderland and John Gorman at Swindon, who went their 1st 15 games without a win. I don't think he's going to be given that much time if they don't continue to win.
But I'm going to reel off those 15 managers to have not won their reckoning eight games, because there's some classic names in there. You've got ad boothroyd, brian McDermott, eric black, gary megson, john deon, john gorman, kevin ball, mick McCarthy, nigel worthington, remy gar, sean Dysch, steve coppell, steve wigley and terry connor. Some absolute classics there.
And, yeah, Iriello has joined that bunch, so it's not looking good for him and it's not looking good for Sheffield United either.
[00:31:23] Speaker A: I was about to say, they're the other team we want to mention here. In there again, there is conversations around, is Hecking woffam's time coming to an end? Are they going to go back to a man who was on that list earlier on in Chris Wilder?
[00:31:35] Speaker B: Surely not.
[00:31:37] Speaker A: Surely not. Deals like that.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: It opens up that bigger question of kind of like you often think of a team of fans saying this about these sort of teams, and I can say this as a Watford fan who have been kind of a bit of a yo yo club over recent years.
And sometimes you think, I love those seasons. When you're near the top of the championship and you're doing really well. They are the best times to support your team because you go into every game thinking, yeah, you're going to win, and you see the good times. And then you start to think, what actually is the point? Because what is the best you can do in the Premier League as one of those clubs?
You might have an OD season where you get on the verge of getting to Europe, or even manage to get into Europe like Wolves did five or six years ago. Brighton have done this season, but then of, it feels like it just catches up with you over time and you see now like, the three clubs that have come up could easily go back down this season. And I fully respect the way that Luton have gone about this. They've been quite open with the fact that, you know what, we don't expect to stay up, we've done so well to get here and financially, this will be excellent for us. We can advance our move to move to Power Court, we can get that ground built quicker and earlier than we ever hoped. To have done. So we're not going to spend loads of money and we're going to take this hit. But that says a lot for the Premier League in terms of how competitive it really is now for those clubs that come up and you just think, well, I feel like I'm on such a downer here. But you see these clubs come up and you think, well, what's the best you can hope for? Scrapping survival for a couple of years, which is not really that enjoyable, and then eventually go down.
Is it horrendous? They're in that second season now, aren't they, after coming back, and Forrest could be battling away.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Is it horrendous to say the best those clubs I want is to be bought out by someone who might splash a load of money just to keep you up in twelveTH 13th.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: Yeah, but then it becomes who's and then you just get someone richer, take over the other clubs. I mean, since they got promotion back to the Premier League in 2021, sheffield United have lost 36 of their 46 games and they've averaged just zero point 52 points per game.
And it feels like, okay, they'll come back down to the championship with loads of money and do what Leicester are doing right now.
And I know Southampton haven't started fantastically, but they could easily end up winning promotion.
Yeah, I don't know.
[00:34:25] Speaker A: Welcome to the Defeated Football podcast about life as a championship Premier League yo yo club Supporter it feels like that's.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: Only going to get worse, that kind of thing. The financial discrepancy between the championship and Premier League is no new thing. People have talked about it for ages and it feels like it's much harder now for those clubs coming up unless they've got financial backing themselves and then.
[00:34:52] Speaker A: The financial consequences of if you throw the money at trying to chase the Premier League dream and it all goes wrong, that is also knockoff effect for a lot of these clubs these days.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: You've seen that obviously with quite a lot of clubs, haven't you? I mean, the club you support, Reading, have had that more so over a long period.
[00:35:09] Speaker A: Go back before that, bolton, Derby County, Wigan Athletic, all these teams that chased Premier League and whatever, trying to get back up and now pay the consequences down the line. I think we need to cheer ourselves up, Matt, because we're delving into the depth.
Let's get into the Quirky and of course, the Pauline Quirk quiz.
[00:35:33] Speaker B: Yes. So this week's question that I am going to teach you. So, spurs won one nil at Luton on Saturday and that saw them end a day top of the Premier League table for the first time this season. And it's where they'll remain across the international break following results on Sunday. So my question for you is, across English top flight history, 53 of the 65 different teams to have played in Division One or the Premier league have ended a day top of the league within seasons, but 25 teams have ended fewer than 20 days top of the league. I want you to name those in a penalty shootout style quiz.
[00:36:13] Speaker A: So this does feel very similar to the question we had earlier in the season, but then we were looking for the teams that have been at the top longest. Now we're looking for the teams who.
[00:36:22] Speaker B: Have been at the top shortest.
[00:36:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: And I definitely haven't had to make this quiz up because I thought we hadn't done that quiz before.
So, yeah, this is the case. This is the new quiz, the real quiz. What have you done? Have you thrown a shoe over a pub belly?
No. So I think that yeah, we've inverted it. So, early in the season, Brighton went to the top for the first time ever in Top Flight history, and we did do a quiz on the teams that have ended a day top of the league, and the most often to do that. So what I'm actually asking you is to find those teams who have been in the Top Flight and haven't had that much success.
Some great names in there, so you've got to think of who has made it to the top tier since 1888. Cast your mind back belly and think who might not have finished Top of the League.
[00:37:14] Speaker A: That often is the answer. Bray Bentos. That's the real quiz.
Right, then we've got the question. Now we got to do some racking of our brains and diving into the history books, but we'll be back to see how we get on in the Pauline Quirk quiz. And this one might sound familiar, but it is very slightly different. Matt, do you want to remind the audience of the question?
[00:37:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So 65 different teams have played in the English Top Flight.
25 of those teams have ended the day top of the league for fewer than 20 days. Some of them have spent no days top of the top flight. I want you to name those 25 teams in a penalty shootout style quiz.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: This is going to be good fun. I can already feel it. Ollie, as ever guest of the podcast, do you want to go first or second?
[00:38:23] Speaker C: Well, I was debating letting you go first because of your, let's say it frankly, Royful record on this section of the podcast.
But I want to maintain my record of one I've won. So I'm going to go first because I think Matt dropped a clue for one of the teams, so I'm going to step up and take that one first.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: Right, fair enough. Don't blame me at all. Right, then. Paul Inquiry quiz. Good luck at home. Have your pen and paper ready or notepad for your own ones as well.
[00:38:58] Speaker B: Good luck, Ollie.
[00:39:01] Speaker C: Good luck, I think.
Brighton.
[00:39:08] Speaker B: They spent seven days top of the Premier League recently this season.
[00:39:15] Speaker A: Right, this is the equivalent of banging one in front of your home fans here Redding FC.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: Redding FC have played in the top flight and never spent a single day.
[00:39:24] Speaker C: Top of the league.
[00:39:26] Speaker B: So, yes, reading are in there.
[00:39:28] Speaker C: That was on my list, so that's frustrating.
I'm going to go for a team who I think are the only side to ever concede 100 goals in a single top flight campaign. That's a guess. But swindon Town.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: Swindon Town are on my list. Correct. They have spent no days top the top flight.
[00:39:50] Speaker A: I have Swindon on my list as well, in which case I'm going to go arnsley.
[00:39:58] Speaker B: Yes, they have spent zero days top of the top.
[00:40:03] Speaker A: It's like watching Brazil, but they've never been top of the top flight.
[00:40:09] Speaker C: Ollie okay, gets a bit murky here, doesn't it? I'm going to go for Millwall.
[00:40:21] Speaker B: Millwall have played in the top flight and they have spent eleven days top of top flight. So, yes, they qualify. Well done. Really.
[00:40:36] Speaker A: Can you put me down for Oldham Athletic?
[00:40:41] Speaker B: Oldham Athletic have played in the top flight, had a disastrous spell in the Premier League, but have spent 98 days here we go.
Respect your history, Belly.
[00:40:57] Speaker A: No, if you haven't read the book about olden athletics, rise up through the leagues under Joe Rohr, definitely worth having a read of that. It's one of the best football books I've read in recent years, but, yeah, damn right.
[00:41:13] Speaker B: So, Ollie, you have a chance to take a lead here. Who is your fourth pick?
[00:41:19] Speaker C: This one I'm not too sure about, but I'm just going to have a go with Hull City.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: Hull City have played in the top flight. They have actually ended a day top of the Premier League in the Premier League era. But that is the only day they have ever spent top of the top flight. So, yes, they are one of the teams. Great stuff, Betty.
[00:41:41] Speaker A: Oh, this has gone horrendously wrong.
[00:41:44] Speaker B: This is a sudden death. If he doesn't score, there is a chance.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: My head is in my hands here.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: Forgive me. You do need to score. Yes, you do need to score. Yeah.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: I've got to hope this is right.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: Wimbledon.
[00:42:07] Speaker A: Original Wimbledon.
[00:42:10] Speaker B: Okay, so Wimbledon are just under the 20 days they are 18 days they spent top of the top flight. So, yes, they qualify. You're still in it, Ollie. If you score this, you win. If you don't, the Belly has the chance to take it. Sundef. So who's your next pick?
[00:42:33] Speaker C: I've got two. Antonio, which one to go for?
[00:42:37] Speaker B: Are we talking left foot or right foot? Penalty here of a Penny Martin style penencha?
[00:42:43] Speaker C: I'm going to penenchor it. No, I remember we did something on our site a few years ago about Southampton being top for the first time in ages.
I think they've played a lot of games in the top flight, but I'm going to go with them.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: Lifeline Belly, 66 days top of the top flight, you have a chance to take a sudden death with your last guess. If you do, it'd be the first time we've ever gone to sudden death.
[00:43:13] Speaker A: This is just horrendous. This is such a low ebb.
[00:43:20] Speaker C: You're going to bottle it?
[00:43:22] Speaker A: I feel like it. I've got an absolute wild card and I just don't feel confident playing the wild card.
I'm going to stick in Thames Valley. I'm going to go Oxford United and I'm going to kick myself, because I feel like they had one good year in Division One in the 80s.
[00:43:41] Speaker B: They did, but they never finished the day top. So you have taken it to sudden death. Oxford United. Your pick. This is the first time we've ever got sudden death. Thank God I've got enough names on here. So, yeah, I have to extend my Excel sheet right here. So, Ollie, your kick.
[00:44:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:44:00] Speaker C: This is the one I was going to go for in the previous round, wigan Athletic.
[00:44:08] Speaker A: I have this on my list I want before Matt gives the answer, I have Wigan Athletic on my list.
[00:44:14] Speaker B: Wigan Athletic spent a day top in the Premier League era, but never spent a day top before the Premier League. So they are on it. And you would have won if you'd have picked that one before.
So, yeah, belly, you have to score here. Now we're in sudden death. 6th kick.
[00:44:32] Speaker A: This is my outrageous shout.
[00:44:35] Speaker B: Here we go.
[00:44:36] Speaker C: What a plan to use it.
[00:44:40] Speaker A: Barry FC, have they ever I don't know why?
[00:44:46] Speaker B: Just in my head. Barry are one of the 65 teams who have played in the top flight.
Unfortunately for you, Belly, they spent 30 days top. So it's ten days over.
Ollie, you win. Belly, you lose again, I'm afraid. But it was the best effort yet. Graham, well done.
Took him all the way.
[00:45:08] Speaker A: Can I give you my two other teams? I have written down and I'm going to kick myself.
I put Luton Town down as a real giggly answer, but I feel like they would have had quite a few days at the top at some point.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: Well, you would have scored 16 days they've spent who was your other?
[00:45:24] Speaker A: And the other one was Bradford City.
[00:45:26] Speaker B: Bradford City, you would have scored 19 days, one just under 20. So you picked the wrong one. You took a gamble and it didn't pay off. Who knows, you might have won if you picked those. I'll give you the full list now. Teams that haven't spent a day top sorry. Have spent under 20 days top. So bradford 19 days. Wimbledon, 18 days. Luton, 16 days. Coventry City, 15 days. Millwall, eleven days. The Mighty Hornets. Watford, eight days. Akrinton, seven days. Brighton, seven days. Carlisle, seven days. Crystal palace. Seven days. Fulham, six days. Hull, wigan, one day. And all these following teams have never spent a day top of the top flight, but they've been in the top flight. Barnsley, bournemouth. Bradford. Park Avenue. Bristol City. Darwin. Glossop. Northend. Grimsby, Town. Layton.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: Orient.
[00:46:19] Speaker B: Northampton town. Oxford, Reading and Swindon Town. I cannot believe you didn't get Glossop Northend, genuinely.
[00:46:26] Speaker A: I had Bradford, Park Avenue as, like, that jokey answer, like, in my head and just went, it can't be true, they never well, Ollie, congratulations. Really good. I mean, the Millwall shout is just worth it for the admission fee alone there.
[00:46:40] Speaker B: Yeah, good effort from both you, actually.
[00:46:43] Speaker A: Well, I now need I thought that.
[00:46:45] Speaker B: Was quite a difficult quiz, considering I've.
[00:46:48] Speaker A: Spent my weekend revising how all the Premier League goal scorers for Tottenham after Van der Ben's goal, I was like Chris Armstrong. That's going to be my one. I'm going to remember that one. Ollie, thanks for joining us, as ever, on the day today. Matt, thanks for being Quiz Master and Stat Master and everything else as well for the show. And thank you to each and every one of you for tuning in. Obviously, we won't be here next weekend, it is an international break. So Matt's off to represent Mauritius, I believe, is his plan for the week. Gonna score, gonna score. Everybody's gonna score.
[00:47:18] Speaker B: You making it sound like I'm going to Mauritius. I do not have that much money. I'm not going to Mauritius.
[00:47:24] Speaker A: More like Margate than Mauritius. Right, then, from all of us here, until next time, thanks very much for tuning in. Will see you again soon.
